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Just Starting Out - newbie fish tank enthusiast here

rmanduh313 - Jan 14, 2008 - 04:59 PM
Post subject: newbie fish tank enthusiast here

hello all
just to prepare everyone, i plan to ask a million questions on here at least
i am very new to the fish tank world
i purchased a small 10 gallon set up from petsmart and loved it
turned out within the month i was ready to upgrade
so we recently purchased a 45 gallon eclipse tall tank
its so pretty with the black stand in our living room
now ive just gitta fill it up
we currently have 5 tiger barbs, 2 gouramis, 1 pleco, 3 giant danios and 1 tinfoil barb
we will be passijng the tinfoil along to a friend when he gets too big
since the ppl at the pet store failed to inform me of his potential size
what other colorful fish would get along well with this group?
also, how the heck am i suppost to use the gravel cleaner without messing up the live plants, cause with water in it, its too tall for me to reach down there and replant them??
thanx in advance
amanda

TammieKaye - Jan 14, 2008 - 07:02 PM
Post subject: RE: newbie fish tank enthusiast here

Hi Amanda, welcome to Fishgeeks!!

These forums exist for any questions you may have (as I did when I first started, well still do it seems!! Very Happy

)

Nice tank you have! I upgraded from the 12 Eclipse to a 40 with the Eclipse hood, beautiful looking tall tank. Tall tanks limit you more than long tanks, but I believe you have some room, depending on the type of pleco you have. If it is a common pleco, you will need to return it, or upgrade to an even larger tank, as they can get up to 12 inches. I kept a Bristlenose in mine, as they only get about 5 inches. I'll let others suggest other fish, as I really am not good at that.

As far as gravel vacs, close to plants you will just want to skim the surface close to the plants.

I am moving your post to the Just Starting Out forum for more advice Wink

WetWhiskers - Jan 14, 2008 - 07:31 PM
Post subject: RE: newbie fish tank enthusiast here

HI , what kind of gouramis do you currently have? Also what is your ph.
Tiger barbs can sometimes be a bit nippy so i wouldn't put them with anything that has fancy fins .Gouramis can be a bit pushy too especially to their own kind.
Maybe a few more danios they look really nice swimming together.
I agree with tammie on the pleco they can get monsterous.

eaglesrock41 - Jan 14, 2008 - 07:42 PM
Post subject: RE: newbie fish tank enthusiast here

If I were you, I would get some panda cories for the bottom. Not quite sure about the surface area at the bottom so that might not work, depending upon the size. Some tiger barbs are fin-nippers, some aren't. Mine aren't. I third about the pleco.

DavidAl - Jan 14, 2008 - 07:48 PM
Post subject: RE: newbie fish tank enthusiast here

Hi Amanda!

If you're going to keep your current stock in the 10g, I wouldn't add anymore fish. In fact, you may want to move some of them to your new tank as they will be crowded when fully grown. The Giant Danios would love the extra swimming space, too.

If your Pleco is a common Pleco, you may want to pass it along with the Tinfoil as they both get pretty big.

What kind of Gouramis do you have? A pair of Dwarf Gouramis will do fine in the 45g, but they may show some aggressiveness in the 10g; you may want to consider moving them. As of matter of fact, the Tiger Barbs could use some extra swimming space as well!

Based on the choices in your current selection, this is how I would stock your 10g:

One Dwarf Gourami
Five Cherry Barbs (4 females and 1 male)
Three Panda Cories

This will put you above the one inch of fish/gallon, but with good filtration, totally doable, and it should be a fun tank to watch!

For the 45g, and using some of your current stock:

Eight Tiger Barbs
Three Giant Danios
Six Corydoras sp.

I wouldn't put a Gourami with Tiger Barbs, even when appropriately stocked. A Tiger Barb is a Tiger Barb and will eventually nip on the Gourami's pelvic fins. You may be able to fit a Bristlenose or Rubberlip Pleco, as well.

David

rmanduh313 - Jan 14, 2008 - 07:56 PM
Post subject: RE: newbie fish tank enthusiast here

i have all of my fish listed already transfered to my 45g tank
they all seem to be getting alone fine
i havent seen any nipping or chasing around or anything
the barbs stick together as do the danios
is there a way just by looking i can tell what type of pleco i have?
my hubby bought him and stuck him in the tank so i have no idea what his growth potential is
id like to get some silver mollies i saw at the petstore the other day
but didnt know if they would be food for my barbs

rmanduh313 - Jan 14, 2008 - 07:57 PM
Post subject: RE: newbie fish tank enthusiast here

oh yeah
also my ph is at 7
and i keep the temp at 78

WetWhiskers - Jan 14, 2008 - 08:20 PM
Post subject: RE: newbie fish tank enthusiast here

personally i don't like putting live bearers in with too many other fish...but thats just how i like to do it.I also find that many pet stores stock of them are sickly and weak. Also from my past experiences mollies tend to lean more to the brackish end of the pool.

If you take a pic of the pleco and post it i'm sure someone could id him for you.

I still wouldn't put the gourami with the barbs as well..

you know there are quite a few different tiger barbs..so maybe if you want to have 2 small schools of 2 different tiger barbs..if you take out the gourami..that would be nice..

Are you keeping the 10 going?

i also like cherry barbs, cory cats and pencil fish are pretty and there are a few kinds of them..though i do not have any personal experience with them yet..working on that myself.

rmanduh313 - Jan 15, 2008 - 06:49 PM
Post subject: RE: newbie fish tank enthusiast here

i dont plan to keep the ten gallon going
the 5 tiger barbs i have right now are three of the red/black and two albino
i would like to get some of the green ones
will tiger barbs get along with all other types of barbs (like the cherry)
ill try to get a pic of my pleco
how fast do pleco's and tinfoil barbs grow?
just wondering how long i have before they outgrow my 45g tank
i cant figure out how to post a pic in with my reply though of my pleco

TammieKaye - Jan 15, 2008 - 07:10 PM
Post subject: Re: RE: newbie fish tank enthusiast here

rmanduh313 wrote:

i cant figure out how to post a pic in with my reply though of my pleco

Scroll down to "add attachment". Scroll down again to "browse", find the picture on your computer and then submit! You can also just copy and post the image tag if your store photos on the web somewhere like photobucket.

rmanduh313 - Jan 15, 2008 - 07:39 PM
Post subject: picture of the pleco

we'll see if this works
this isnt a pic of my exact pleco
but i found it on the petsmart website and it looks about right
same color pattern and build
any idea what type he is and how big i can expect him to grow?

Diana - Jan 15, 2008 - 08:42 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

Common Pleco. There are several species available, sold as Common Plecos. They easily reach a foot, and some grow to 2'. They do a decent job on algae, and poop a lot. As big as they get it is like keeping a cow in the back yard just to eat a few weeds.

Complexity - Jan 15, 2008 - 11:03 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

Hi manduh313! Welcome to fishgeeks!

I find that it's sometimes hard to envision what such a cute, little fish looks like when it grows to 1' - 2' long. So as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Here are a few pictures of common plecos full grown. Your little pleco will eventually become something like these fish.

The good news is that there are a large number of other kinds of plecos that do not get this big. Many grow to only 4"-6", and many have much brighter markings. So if you like plecos, you can still have one. It's just a matter of getting one of the smaller ones.

You'll find that the chain stores generally do not tell you how large the fish will become. It appears the top management of those stores hope their customers will either get larger tanks as the fish grow or give the fish away and buy more fish. Either way, they want to make more money by not informing their customers of the necessary information to make an informed decision. The last time I looked at the various fish offered by petsmart, I was amazed at how many of the fish required a very large aquarium, 100 gallons or more. Why do they sell these fish when the majority of their customers will never get a tank that large? Obviously, they make money off of it somehow. Also, watch out for the "aquarium" plants. Many cannot grow submerged in the water. I am rather appalled that they can get away with it, and I feel badly for those who trusted them only to watch their plants die, thinking they killed them when in truth, the plants had no way of surviving no matter what the person did.

This is not to say that all large chain stores are bad. I buy things from them all the time. It's just that when it comes to buying any livestock, fish or plants, it's important to already know what you're buying without depending on the store or employees to advise you because frequently, even if well intentioned, the advice is wrong.

Diana - Jan 15, 2008 - 11:52 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

Vicki, great Pleo Pics! Sure puts things into perspective, seeing a fish so large it takes 2 hands to hold it!

WetWhiskers - Jan 16, 2008 - 02:23 AM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

even at that size i still think they are cuties Wink

but still way too big. My dad has a chocolate albino named monster he is easily 8 inches now and he's had him i want to say a year and a half and he got him when he was a wee little thing.

rmanduh313 - Jan 16, 2008 - 10:42 AM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

so what are some good bottom dwellers that dont get quite so huge?
my tank it tall (31 inches tall) so i want to have movement in all areas of the water
my hubby really likes the looks of catfish
so he wanted to get some of those
are there certain types that do good in a 45 gallon tank with tiger barbs, guaramis and danios?
thanx in advance
manada

TammieKaye - Jan 16, 2008 - 11:09 AM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

A Bristlenose pleco would work in your tank. Or a Rubberlip pleco would too. Either only get to 5 inches or so.

WetWhiskers - Jan 16, 2008 - 12:32 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

you could also do a few cories.They come in many different patterns and are so cute with their little whiskers Smile

sadly many of the "catfish" stores sell end up too big for most people's tanks and unless you research them beforehand many places won't inform you of such.

rmanduh313 - Jan 16, 2008 - 01:18 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

thanx for the tips
i saw some cory catfish at petsmart last week that i liked
some were really fiesty goin fast at the bottom
others were moving around alot slower
some were hiding under a rock
will any type of cory do good in my tank?
also, i think ive decided only to add some different varieties of barbs to my tank
rather than mixing other kinds and risking them not getting along
i like the green tiger barb
will any type of barb do ok in my tank?

Complexity - Jan 16, 2008 - 02:54 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

Any cory should do fine. But if your husband really wants a pleco, there are a large number of varieties that stay small and would be great in a 45g tank. I personally have a flash pleco (L-204). He'll grow to a maximum size of about 5".

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=126

There are pages and pages and pages of plecos and other catfish on that website with pictures, care information, size information, and all. Generally, there are so many, it's best to first find a pleco you're interested in and then look it up to be sure it won't grow too big. However, there are some that are more commonly known, such as bristlenose or rubberlip plecos, that people can activity search for and find pretty easily. Actually one of the prettiest, but highly expensive, plecos is the zebra pleco. Take a look at it!

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=168
http://www.planetcatfish.com/cotm/cotm. ... icle_id=56

Zebras only reach around 3" in size so they're a perfect size for an aquarium.

I can't help out with the barbs. I don't know enough about mixing them.

rmanduh313 - Jan 16, 2008 - 05:34 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

wow that zebra one is really cool looking
i bet i'd have a hard time finding one locally though
how expensive are they?

Zing - Jan 16, 2008 - 06:33 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

Zebra plecos are fairly rare and usually cost more then $100 for 1.5 inch fish.
If you are really interested in plecos there are literally thousands of different plecos out there, many of them dont even have a scientific or common name yet and are named by number (l-66, l-114 and so on). Some of those plecos are insanely expensive, but many are under $30. I agree with previous poster, just look for pleco in your lfs, and if you find one that you like and can afford go and do some research about it.
The other way is to get a loach (preferably a group of smaller ones) or some catfish. Again, the choice is very big.
Regarding barbs. They are schooling and very active fish, prefer to be in schools of 6 or more (8 is a good number), and like to be in schools of their own kind. If your tank would be bigger I would recommend you gold barbs, golden barbs, ticto (odessa) barbs, ruby barbs, rosy barbs - pretty much every small barb specie there is, they all behave good together. However your tank is 36x24x12, which is not that much. I think you are limited to a nice healthy school of 8-10 tiger barbs + a small school of cherry barbs. The reason is cherry barbs are small (2" max) and not as "schooly" as many other barb species.
But thats just my opinion, so you should take it with a grain of salt. It is just that I have 9 odessa barbs in 29g (30x18x12), they seems to be fine since they reproducing, but I feel they are really cramped in there, so I am thinking about upgrading to 75-90g tank to have 2 nice schools of barbs in a tank.

rmanduh313 - Jan 16, 2008 - 09:35 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

those are not the dimensions of my tank
its 45 gallons and its tall
i measured it myself and its 30 x 12 x 31
so its much taller than the measurements your gave
i have 5 tiger bars (two of which are albino), 3 giant danios
2 gouramis (one dwarf and one opaline)
and then 1 tinfoil barb and 1 common pleco which i am looking for a new BIGGER home for
so i think i would have room for several more fish
am i wrong thinking such?

TammieKaye - Jan 16, 2008 - 09:43 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

I think you have a little room, but fish do not swim up and down. Tall tanks limit you this way. There is also less surface area for oxygen. Corys like the bottom...mostly. Mine love swimming in my current, but I have not had them too long to know much about them.

rmanduh313 - Jan 16, 2008 - 10:20 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

if i want to add a cory for the bottom and a few more barbs (anything but tiger)
how many should i add?
if i get some of the smaller barb varieties, will they be ok with my tiger barbs?
i dont want any fish to kill each other

Diana - Jan 17, 2008 - 03:27 AM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

I would not add more mid-tank swimmers to this tank. This is territory for the Tigers. If you want to add a few more Tiger Barbs (any color- they are all the same fish) do that.
Cories ought to be fine, though. They do well in a group of about 5+.

Complexity - Jan 17, 2008 - 11:57 AM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

I'm in agreement with what's been said about limiting the barbs. While the tank does have 45 gallons, the footprint and surface space is no larger than my 20 gallon long tank. It's just taller. My tank dimension are 30 x 12 x 12. So you have 13" inches of more vertical water, but there's no more actual bottom space or top space. Those two are of greatest importance when considering how many fish you can stock.

So when considering how many fish you can have, you're in the same arena as people with a 20 gallon long tank or a 29 gallon regular. The extra water will help with the water conditions (more water dilutes nitrates, etc.), but it doesn't help regarding competing space at the bottom, horizontal swimming space or water/surface air exchange. Another way to picture it is to think of the tank as being two 10 gallon tanks put together.

Hopefully, that will help with the understanding that while you may have extra water, the tank shape itself limits the number of fish you can have. So you need to keep one or two schools of middle swimming fish.

When MTS hits you (multiple tank syndrome), consider the footprint of your next tank. The larger the footprint, the more fish you get to keep (within reason).

As far as the zebras, obviously some people are more than willing to spend the money to get them. I have no idea what your budget might be so I didn't want to pre-decide for you that it's beyond your desired expenditure. I know it's beyond mine even though I could afford one. I'm just as happy with my flash pleco. Mainly, I wanted to give you some idea of the variety out there and that there are some that not only stay small enough for your tank, but can also be much more beautiful, as well. And you don't have to pay hundreds to get a really pretty one that stays small.

Here are some examples. I am in no way suggesting you buy them from this source (nor am I saying don't buy them here). I have no experience buying live fish from these guys. However, they have some nice examples of lesser expensive, small and beautiful plecos.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod ... CatId=1040

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod ... CatId=1039

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod ... CatId=1006

I also want to be clear that I'm in no way attempting to convince you to get a pleco. They typically hide most of the day, have very high bioloads (meaning they poop a lot), and some can become territorial when older. I just didn't want to give the impression that since the common pleco got too big, that all plecos were out of the question, especially since you mentioned that your husband really liked them.

rmanduh313 - Jan 17, 2008 - 12:00 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

thanx for the tip about more mid level swimmers
are there other fish that swim in different levels that i can add?
i guess i just assumed when i got a 45g tank
that id have LOTS more room to add fish
and i havent added that many
ill prolly at least get a few of the green tiger barbs

Complexity - Jan 17, 2008 - 01:02 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

Yes, there are fish for the bottom, middle and top. Cories and plecos are for the bottom. Most schooling fish are for the middle. I don't know of a lot of the top fish, but fish like hatchet fish stay at the top. By having a mixture of each, they don't compete for the same space so you can mix and match them to have more fish. Just make sure they all fit in your tank, are all compatible, and your tank is cycled enough to handle them.

As far as your old 10 gallon, that tank would be ideal for a Q/T (quarantine tank) or even a H/T (hospital tank) should the need arise. I very highly recommend NEVER putting new fish in your main tank without first keeping them in a Q/T for 2-4 weeks. This accomplishes two things (maybe three). For one, it allows you to better examine your fish for illnesses which do not always present themselves in the pet store or bag when you first get them. Sometimes it takes a week or two before you see something develop like ich or tail & fin rot. Sometimes just getting the fish stress them enough to bring on these illnesses. If you don't use a Q/T, then all illnesses the new fish carry is then transferred to all of your fish, and some fish, such as cories and plecos, can't handle the medicines as well as other fish.

Second, allowing your fish some time in a Q/T gives them some time to adjust peacefully on their own before having to handle the complexities of being mixed in an established tank with various alpha fish, fish with territories, and all. Most of the time the fish we see in the stores just arrived there a day or two earlier. So these fish have been extremely stressed by being shipped (very often) from other countries. Some fish are drugged to handle the trip. Some die at high numbers with just the survivors making it into the pet store tanks (but who knows which of those fish will actually make it). So now you get these stressed fish that have just traveled for a very long time, have just been thrust into a new, highly crowded tank with a constant barage of having a net racing through to catch some of them, including the ones you got, only to take yet another trip to your home, and then thrust into yet another tank with each of the tanks having its own water temperatures, pH levels, nitrate levels, etc. Is it any wonder why some get sick? By giving them a Q/T all to themselves, it gives them a chance to adjust to all of the changes before being put with other fish in an established tank with an established hiarchy. It also allows you to get to know their personalities better so when they do join the other fish, you can tell if they're acting out of character or not. So a Q/T gives the fish time to catch up to all the changes before being mixed with other fish, stressing them even further.

Lastly, should the fish become sick, the Q/T can immediately become a H/T where treatment can be given without having to disturb the fish. You don't have to be invasive by netting them AGAIN to move them to a H/T nor do you have to stress them out by netting other fish to move to another tank, such as cories, plecos, catfish, loaches, who cannot tolerate the medicines and treatment the sick fish require. All in all, the Q/T limits the illness to that one small tank, making it very easy to taylor any medical treatment for the particular fish in question while disturbing them the very least and not disturbing or exposing your main tank to the diseases or treatment.

Since you have the 10 gallon tank, you are already in great shape to use it as a Q/T. It doesn't need to be fancy. A few plastic plants, no substrate, a basic light to examine the fish, proper temperature control, a simple filter, and that's about all. If they're fine after 2-4 weeks, then you can be confident when you add them to your main tank.

Anyway, as far as the various fish that prefer the different levels of the tank, I'm sure you'll get lots of suggestions from others. It sounds like you're going to have a beautiful tank with lots of healthy fish. Smile

rmanduh313 - Jan 17, 2008 - 07:53 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

thank you all so much for the advice
we went to petco today and bought three small little albino cory's
they are really cute
and its a nice contrast to the color of our tank and other fish
right now they are real small, so i didnt know how many to get
i saw in a previous post that they do good in groups of 5+
so should i get a couple more?
how long does it take for them to reach mature size?

TammieKaye - Jan 17, 2008 - 08:02 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

I don't know how long it takes them to mature, but I agree they are very cute! Just got some myself! My substrate is black, as well as the background and they really stand out. I think you could get a couple more.

rmanduh313 - Jan 17, 2008 - 09:03 PM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

off topic, for my tank i just have a mixture of natural color various size gravel
bought them in the 25 bags at petco
will that be ok for the cory's?

Complexity - Jan 18, 2008 - 07:43 AM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

It should be okay. The color isn't as important as whether it has sharp edges or not. If it has sharp edges, it could cut their sensitive mouths and tummies. Otherwise, it should be okay. I think most regular gravel you'll find should be good.

Congratulations on your cories! I agree, get a couple more. I think you'll enjoy their personalities when they have a large enough group to feel safe so they can then show off their normal playful behavior.

nonis_mommy - Jan 18, 2008 - 10:07 AM
Post subject: RE: picture of the pleco

Ditto, Vicki, the gravel is fine as long as there are not sharp edges. I kept my cories in a gravel substrate for a while and they had no problems. When I switched them to sand I noticed that they were a bit more active, stirring up the sand, looking for food.